Raising Anti-Racist Children – A Holistic Approach (with Kristen Coggins)
Kristen Coggins is a respiratory therapist, a positive discipline educator, a mom, and a Black woman, so she is very much in the eye of the current storm with a first-person perspective of the history unfolding around us. Krissy and Janet discuss the positive steps parents can take right now toward raising empathetic, anti-racist children, starting with the hard work of self-reflection with compassion. As Krissy writes: “Being able to appreciate the full humanity of another person is fostered in how well you see yourself and how well you see your children. Do you treat them like whole people with their own thoughts, feelings and desires? Everything is cyclical.”
Transcript of “Raising Anti-Racist Children – A Holistic Approach (with Kristen Coggins)”
Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today I have the privilege of speaking with a woman who really seems to embody this explosive movement in history we’re all experiencing. Krissy Coggins is a positive discipline educator who supports parents in the practice of intentional nurturing to promote positive relationships, and helps us all to be the parents we want to be. She’s also a busy mom, a respiratory therapist, and a Black woman. So there are a lot of very heavy, complicated things going on in Krissy’s world right now, but she has graciously found the time and space to share her perspective.
Janet Lansbury: Hi, Krissy.
Kristen Coggins: Hi. How are you, Janet?
Janet Lansbury: I’m well. I’m so thankful that you wanted to do this. You’re one of the first people I followed on Instagram actually, and I was thrilled to see how like-minded we are and that your work with parents is grounded deeply in respect for children from birth. But one thing is different. You do a whole lot more than I do these days. You’re a parent of beautiful daughters, including a two-month-old baby. Like literally, how are you putting a sentence together right now?
Kristen Coggins: Honestly, it’s kind of like I heard someone say before “in the corners of the day.” It’s like a little bit here and a little bit there when I can fit something in, while I’m in the drive through at Starbucks. But really I have done a whole lot of slowing down this past year. Last year, I would do a lot of work, get up at four o’clock in the morning to make sure that I can get all these different things done. And it felt great, because being productive always does feel great. And then last year when my baby girl passed away, I was like, okay, I am not in this space of being able to do this work. And I gave myself permission to really just slow down. And I think it’s just so important for us to give ourselves that permission to take a step back, slow down. The work will be there always. And I really gave myself that time to just, to breathe.
Janet Lansbury: Oh, I love that you listened to yourself that way. And I’m so sorry about your wonderful daughter. And there are not enough words for that experience. But I read your posts at that time and they were so heartbreaking and inspiring at the same time, and the spirit that came through…You’re a gift to everyone.
Kristen Coggins: Thank you. Yeah, it was a powerful and heartbreaking time for sure.
Janet Lansbury: I’m so sorry.
So you’re a positive discipline educator and a parent coach. So that’s what you do on the side, or when you’re driving through Starbucks? And, get this everyone, you’re a respiratory therapist.
Kristen Coggins: Yes. I am a night shift respiratory therapist. And with COVID going on now, there’s that heightened concern. So it’s been a real test in being mindful, really, and staying present, because there’s so much to worry about in the world. It’s been powerful, it’s been humanizing. I had a patient cry and asked me not to leave her room. Yeah. Because there are no visitors right now. And she said, “Please don’t go.” And I was like, “Oh, I wish I didn’t have to go.” And I came back and I stayed as I could, but yeah, things like that. It’s like the connection is being the family for the family, holding up their pictures of their relatives and talking to them about them and being intentional and mindful in that way that I wasn’t necessarily as much before, you know?
Janet Lansbury: The space that you’re holding for people’s feelings, and I’m sure with your own children too, and it sounds like you’re somehow finding a way to hold space for your own and take care of yourself.
And now we have all these things coming to a head, riveting the whole world like never before. These outrageous, devastating, senseless murders of Black people. And even the fact that COVID is affecting Black communities at a higher percentage. It’s finally getting, and I know it’s way too late, but finally getting everybody’s attention it seems. There’s hope in that. And I know that I’ve become more fully aware that I must do more and I must do better to help combat systemic racism. And that the time is now. The time was actually yesterday, but the time is now. I loved what our US representative and civil rights leader, John Lewis said, “We may not have chosen the time, but the time has chosen us.”
Kristen Coggins: Yes. You know, as a Black woman, we see so much of this closer up for us. And so when it all started to kind of happen, it felt very much like here we go. It’s the same cycle. It’s been happening. For us, I think the first one I remember was Trayvon Martin. You kind of get used to seeing these traumatizing images, mourning with the family and empathizing so hard. And then seeing that the person gets off for whatever happened and that’s a crush again. So it’s like, it happens over and over and over. So you begin to lose hope. You’re like, well, here it goes. And so I kind of got into a point where I just, it was too much. I had to shut it out. I cannot deal with this. It’s just going to happen all over again.
This time it feels different, especially with young people. They are speaking up in a way that is so powerful and so direct and so hopeful. And it’s like, they get it, they are getting it. And they’re speaking up to their parents. I am one of those people that joined TikTok over the quarantine so I’ll scroll and I’ll scroll. They’re posting these conversations, actual conversations that they’re having with their parents. And it’s like, wow. And some of them are getting kicked out of their houses. They’re writing “Black Lives Matter” on the chalk of their driveway. I mean, they are living a revolution at home and that is so powerful. And so many of them have actually said they’re getting through to their parents. It gives me chills. I’m grateful. I am hopeful we may evolve.
Janet Lansbury: Me too. So yeah, we have this wonderful Generation Z. I’ve also heard them called iGen. My children are in that generation. And now we have the next generation that you, and a lot of the people that listen to this podcast are raising. How do we honor this work with them? How do we ensure that we’re raising anti-racist children? What can we do? I really mostly just want to listen to what you have to say about this.
Kristen Coggins: You know, civilization — it seems like it’s being presented with this divine opportunity to evolve. And it’s so painful yet hopeful. Systematically for centuries, Black people have been oppressed in this country, whether it be from implicit bias, overt or covert racism, being traumatized. And it’s like we’ve reached this point where it seems like white people are ready to say enough is enough, and are collectively pushing each other to be on the right side of history. And with that, it’s like folks want to know, what can we do? And so I have two answers that I have prepared for today. One is see yourself. The second is see your children.
There’s a quote by Brené Brown. It says: “We cannot give our children what we do not have.” We cannot give our children what we do not have. And in order to know what you have, you have to see yourself and that requires being mindful. People instantly get defensive if they’re called racists because it doesn’t feel good to be labeled and especially not that label. And it’s like, “No, that’s not me. I don’t accept that. I’m nice to people. I treat them how I want to be treated. I give them the shirt off my back.” But it’s like, what if you took the time to look at it from a mindfulness approach?
There is this great Buddhist tool for mindfulness. It’s an acronym called RAIN: Recognize, Allow, Investigate with kindness, and Non-identification. You might find yourself in a situation where a decision you made or something you said has you being called out or being suspected of being racist. Or maybe there is no call out, maybe you’re just questioning something you did or experienced. So what you would do is first, you’re going to just recognize: What is happening in my body right now. Does my stomach have an icky feeling? How about my face, my chest? Am I having a desire to distract or remove myself from the situation?
Just recognizing everything that you’re feeling can be very powerful.
Next, you want to allow those feelings to just be. It can be hard to sit with discomfort. We want to push it out of our bodies. But don’t fight them. And maybe even picture what that discomfort looks like. What texture is it? What color is it? Just observing it. Going into detail about what it looks like and feels like kind of helps you to separate the discomfort from your body without numbing it.
So you’re looking at the discomfort and then you’re going to investigate it with kindness. Because if you start being hard on yourself about it, the discomfort is not going to allow you to progress through the feelings and really get to the core of what’s happening for you.
So investigate it with kindness. What am I believing in this moment? What is the story that I have going about what’s happening? What is the feeling trying to tell me or do for me? Do I believe I’m being attacked? What memories are coming up? Am I feeling shamed?
It’s important to investigate this, so you can tie your feelings to your why. Because if you go straight from so and so said I’m racist, I’m not racist, it just doesn’t help you to really practice self-awareness, right?
Janet Lansbury: Right. It’s defensive posture. Yeah.
Kristen Coggins: Exactly.
And then lastly, Non-identification. And that means you can recognize that something happened that you didn’t like, or you did something that maybe you should have done, but that is not you. You may feel shame, but you’re not a bad person. When people get stuck on being a bad person, they can’t heal and move forward. So, I am not tied to this and it is not my story. Also, I resolve to use this knowledge to do better, to be a better listener, to speak up, to be empowered, to use my privilege and to build trust.
If you tie yourself to the action, that situation that made you feel small. Then it takes away from your power and leaves you with shame or the facade of shame, which is pride. And it’s not productive or helpful, because you become so much smaller. And you can’t use the privilege that you have to do proper advocating and educating, or just doing the work at home.
You may have heard the term “white fragility,” and that’s what that really is. It’s allowing your ego to be tied to the discomfort around race, as opposed to looking at it, observing it, and identifying what is happening for you and how you can move forward and use it as an empowering thing, as opposed to a shame thing.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I was listening to Brené Brown’s recent podcast and she had a guest, Professor Ibram X. Kendi. I don’t know if you know who he is. He wrote a book, How to Be an Antiracist. And he made a comment, “The good news is that racist and anti-racist are not fixed identities.” And I think that’s important to what you’re talking about because, like you said, it doesn’t mean that this is your label as a whole person, and that you have to own this for the rest of your life. It’s just a stance that you’re taking right now. Or it’s something that’s showing up that you’re expressing. And we can change.
Kristen Coggins: Exactly. The thing is, is knowing that we can always change. And I think the biggest part of that is, like I said before, getting out of the ego, getting out of the shame of it and being empowered, and knowing that this is not your story, you’re not tied to it. And as bad as it may feel at the time, just standing in your truth and being willing to do the work.
Janet Lansbury: And by the way, the mentor of the approach that I teach, Magda Gerber, she said exactly what Brené Brown is saying. She used to say, “What we teach is ourselves, as models of what is human.” And another quote of hers: “Personality characteristics such as generosity, empathy, caring, and sharing cannot be taught, they can only be modeled.”
Kristen Coggins: Exactly. Because our children, they know us. The whole point of being mindful was, for one, so that we can change ourselves. But two, it’s like you can’t fool your children. They know when you’re happy. They know when you’re sad. They know when you’re scared, when you’re frustrated. When you’re mindful and you practice really identifying what needs to be changed at the core, then it becomes an authentic experience for you as well as for them.
Janet Lansbury: Yes.
So I have all these parents, and of course I love this, they’re asking me, what do I do? How do I teach my child not to be racist? One of them said: “I can’t wait to hear more insight about discussing race in a respectable way. How do we raise our kids to not fear what is different?”
I really had to unpack that one because it didn’t make sense to me at first. Why would a child fear someone different? Yes, we know now from studies that children as young as three months notice and prefer the people that look like them, that are their own race. So that bias begins very early. But the fear… Why would they be afraid?
My first instinct, because we know how powerful we are as parents… My first thought was like, there’s something the parent is feeling that is scaring the child around these issues.
And so then I was reading in… I don’t know if you’re aware of KQED MindShift. Cory Turner from NPR did a piece a while ago, way before all these most recent events. And they said the research is showing so many families aren’t talking about these issues. And it’s “a problem because children are hardwired to notice differences at a young age and they’re asking questions like: ‘Why is this person darker than me? Why is this person wearing that hat on their head?’ These are just some of the social identity questions parents might hear.”
“We sometimes are scared to talk about these things. If adults stiffen up and say, ‘Oh, you shouldn’t say that,’ then that’s sending children a cue that there’s something wrong.” (Tanya Haider)
They’re jarred by their powerful parent. And now our children are afraid to bring things up.
Children are just naturally curious. So we have to try to give them honest, fearless responses that they can understand to whatever they’re saying, and know that it’s positive. Wherever children are in their process, it’s positive that they’re sharing it with us. And so, yes, we can correct, but we’re not going to shame them and shut them down with our judgment of them.
Kristen Coggins: Right. Which is really our fear, too, and our discomfort that it goes back to why it’s so important to practice mindfulness. Checking in with your body, just going through that RAIN acronym and seeing where you are with it. Even the child being afraid of somebody else, like you said, there’s a good chance their parent’s afraid. And maybe they don’t know that they’re projecting it.
A child can always feel their parents feelings, that’s something that is easily picked up on.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah. And then looking at why we’re afraid, which oftentimes is… Honestly in the work I do, it’s often that the parent is projecting way far in the future that they’ve raised this horrible racist child. And they’re projecting that in a situation where their child is three or two or four and doing what they’re supposed to do, which is asking questions, inquiring, just being curious, all these wonderful, precious qualities that young children have that allow them to learn so quickly and so thoroughly.
So I try to reassure parents that their child is doing normal things.
Kristen Coggins: Yeah. Very normal.
Janet Lansbury: And that we can feel safe to welcome that.
Kristen Coggins: Kids, like you said, they’re just so curious. And often they don’t have a filter so they’re going to ask the questions and that’s just what it is. It’s a question. It means they’re curious. It means nothing else.
Janet Lansbury: So what are other ideas do you have for how we can talk to children, how we can expose them at an early age to other races? And then at some point, explain the inequities and the biases and the important lessons that we need to teach them.
Kristen Coggins: Right. Well, first I would start with practicing raising children that are aware of and appreciative of the humanity of others. And that is really going to come from how we parent them. The way that we parent is anti-racism work, right?
So if you haven’t been taught to really hear someone else’s feelings without taking it on or taking it personal, then you might not have that skill. It might take you into your adulthood to develop that skill. But if you have a parent that sits with you, just being there for you. Someone who doesn’t say, “Oh, you’re not hurt.” Or, “You’re okay, you’re okay.” Someone who sees you when you’re hurting and acknowledges it and just holds space for you. Then as a child, you begin to learn how to do that.
If you have a parent that honors your boundaries, then you learn how to honor the boundaries of others. If you have a parent that validates you, then you learn how to validate people.
But if you’re constantly being micromanaged, if you’re being told how you feel, told what you want and just not being given respect for your autonomy, then you normalize that and you can carry that into adulthood. And when you meet someone of a different culture, of a different background — specifically right now we’re talking about Black people — then if you come into a situation that makes you uncomfortable, you’re more than likely going to do what you know, which is brush their feelings to the side, not validate, censor your own feelings, that kind of thing, because you don’t really know what it’s like to have that kind of space.
And so it’s really so important that parents do their work on themselves, and then with their children at home.
And of course we’ll never be perfect. There’s no such thing as a perfect parent. You won’t get it right all the time. And that’s fine. It’s a practice. You just have to know how to recover and how to say, “I made this mistake and I’m sorry.” And keep moving forward. You know?
Janet Lansbury: Absolutely. Yeah. I was thinking as you were talking how hard is it to not take our children’s behavior personally sometimes. We’re all going to do that. So, we want to give this to our children. And so, yeah, we have to give it actually to ourself first. We have to give ourselves that grace and patience and empathy and compassion that we’re not going to be perfect either.
Kristen Coggins: Absolutely. Brené Brown actually has a great book. The Gifts of Imperfect Parenting is the title of it. And in thinking about that book, she talks about how you can’t help parents by shaming them. I think that’s also a powerful statement when it comes to white people talking to other white people regarding race. Passions are so high right now, right? Everybody’s feeling this energy. They want to say the right thing and they want to distance themselves from racist ideas or rhetoric. They want to be on the right side of history, so to speak.
Black people, we have our own trauma and hurts around everything from slavery, Jim Crow. So we are not really in this space of holding space for white people. But other white people talking to white people and doing it in a way that is not inviting shame, but is inviting connection and conversation and growth, seeing the humanity in each other — that’s where we see our healing. And that’s where we’ll see our forward movement.
So I really do encourage people… As much as people love to cancel and call out and that kind of thing, and it’s important to firmly say: “No, this is wrong, I do not agree with that. And we will not tolerate that.” That’s very important to have firm boundaries. But it’s equally important to do the work. That’s the hard part — to really say: “Okay, let’s talk about this. And let’s share with each other, let’s connect with each other.” And that’s how healing is going to happen.
Again, I would never… As a Black woman, I would never ask a Black person to do that or to be the person holding that space, because it’s just so triggering and traumatizing and it’s outside of our spoons.
Janet Lansbury: You’re so right. And again, if we’re talking about children, how are they going to experience that? They’re going to experience it through us respecting them, but also when they see us respecting other people, including the way that we call them out or criticize them or correct them. You called it a cycle. And yeah, unfortunately there’s no escaping. We can’t just pop out over here and give our child all the lessons and make them into this kind of person we want them to be. We have to have the whole picture.
Kristen Coggins: Yeah. It has to be a holistic approach. It does. Teaching them how to be empowered instead of being ashamed. And if we’re going to teach them that, then we have to be able to work with that process ourselves.
When someone brings something to you, how do you find power in that instead of being finding defensiveness? Finding the teachable moments.
And on the playground or at a family dinner when their uncle tells that joke that’s not so funny, you know, how you respond in that moment when your children are watching you? Do you do an uncomfortable laugh, haha? Don’t say anything, look away? Or do you speak up? And then do you have a conversation later with them and say, “Hey, X, Y, and Z happened, and I’m going to explain this to you. And it was not okay.”
Even modeling or practicing at home with your children, “What are you going to do if you’re on the playground…?” And I wasn’t sure I was going to share this with you… My daughter, she came home this year. She’s in kindergarten, it’s her first year of school. And she told me that she was on a playground and little White girl said to her, “I can’t play because you have brown skin.”
And when she told me that it completely broke my heart because she was looking at me and I could tell she wanted an answer from me. And all I could think about was when I was in fourth grade and didn’t get invited to the party that all the girls got invited to. And I was the only Black girl on my class. And so it’s like I’m trying to process this with her and process my own experiences. And it’s 2020, you know?
And so I think that’s why it’s so important for parents to model being anti-racist also in the avenue of advocating for other children. So maybe when they’re at home, you know, practice. “I’m going to be this kid and I’m going to say this and how are you going to speak up? Let’s go through this. Let’s role-play it together.”
That way when the moment arises, they have the words, their brain has started making the connection already because they’re practicing at home. It doesn’t feel as foreign to them. And they can advocate in that moment and say what needs to be said and do the work of anti-racism. Because it starts early. It starts early. Parents often feel like they want to protect their children from the evils of society. And Black kids, they don’t get that kind of space. We have to start early because early these things are being brought to them and it’s confusing.
Janet Lansbury: Did you take that moment as a time to start sharing messages with your daughter that you hadn’t shared before? Or had you already been sharing them?
Kristen Coggins: I had been doing some sharing early on from when she was little, reading books, talking about the civil rights movement, talking about powerful leaders in the community, Angela Davis, Assata Shakur, and ways that these people, and women specifically as well, have done such hard work. She’d ask me questions, but she’s so young that it doesn’t always stick. Like, “Don’t you remember we had that conversation?” And she was like, “No, what are you talking about?”
Janet Lansbury: That also reflects so beautifully the way children learn. Because they learn when it’s actually very direct and meaningful for them, which is often when they’re asking about it. So whatever you said, and I don’t know if you want to share or not, but whatever you said in response to that horrible exchange that she had… that she will probably remember for life. Whereas these lessons that we are trying to teach… This is important for white parents to understand… The lessons that we think we’re doing a nice lecture about this, and we’re talking about the history or showing the books or whatever… If a child doesn’t feel directly impacted, which they usually do when they’re the ones discovering it and seeking it out and asking the questions, then they don’t learn it as deeply. It has to be meaningful for them. And that’s why all the things that you’re talking about, the way that children are actually treated by us, the way they actually see us handling tense situations, like what you’re talking about about the uncle, those are messages that they take in deeply.
Kristen Coggins: Yeah. And that’s why it’s so important to have those conversations and not run from it. Not feel like, Oh, they’re too young, they won’t understand. Or they’re not experiencing it yet. Or they just love everybody. Unfortunately, that’s not the reality. So it’s going to be up to parents to really get in there, dig in.
And then, about building trust, because there’s been such a long history of oppression in this country, Black people are very much reserved and not as trusting. So it’s going to take time and it’s going to be painful. Just like if you had a child who you’re trying to switch your way of parenting with them, they’re going to be ups and downs and it’s not always going to go how you want it to go. And you’re not always going to say the thing that you want to say. But the important thing is that you keep showing up. By showing up, you built trust. And over time things heal.
Janet Lansbury: And that ability to kind of look back and evaluate, which takes a lot of self-compassion, to be able to make the mistake. And then instead of just feeling totally ashamed of ourselves, to say, okay, what happened there? And what made me go there? And a lot of times it is getting triggered from something that happened in our own lives. So we can look and go, okay, that’s what happened that time. And I’m going to try again. So we can digest the experience and actually learn from it. It’s not easy to have a process with ourselves that’s gentle, but honest and real and actually productive.
So, you’re talking about these wonderful things to work on. And I just want to keep reiterating, I know you know this, but it’s not easy for any of us.
Kristen Coggins: Certainly not. The discomfort itself… I think we can be so used to either numbing out the discomfort or running from it or discharging it, just trying to get away from it. Just looking at it — it can be a very difficult thing to do without going through one of our usual ways of running from the experience. So yeah, it’s big work for sure, but it’s work that is so worth it, and it’s so worthy.
Janet Lansbury: I’m so glad that you’re here and that you’re committed to this. I’m so grateful for you. Are there any other last tips or thoughts or anything that you want to share?
Kristen Coggins: Just knowing that it’s okay for your child to hear these things and be sad, allowing feelings. Parents want to protect their children from sadness often, or maybe even guilt or shame that may come up. But sitting with them and saying, “It’s okay to feel that feeling.” and teaching them how to process that feeling, and not trying to keep them from it because you’re afraid of how they may feel. Feelings come and feelings go, and there’ll be more feelings to come in the future. So not holding back for that fear.
And then just keep raising your children with humanity.
Janet Lansbury: What you’re saying about feelings, that’s such a perfect example of children learning through us, actually, just us and then the way that we engage with them. And when you brought up the incident with your daughter, and you said that you were triggered to an experience in your own life… I hear this sort of thing happening a lot. And it’s so hard to then let your daughter feel sad about something that’s now touching off the sadness and hurt, all the feelings that you felt and maybe still feel about that.
This is a challenge that we have as parents to kind of separate out our own experiences with those of our children, especially in these fraught situations. Or even if it’s our own: I’m working so hard to be anti-racist in everything I do and now my child just did something that sounds racist to me in this moment! or whatever. How are we going to be able to be curious about our child’s perspective and where they are in their process and be accepting, that acceptance of them and the normalization of everything they go through emotionally and in their own learning process?
Kristen Coggins: Right. And knowing that it’s okay to not have a big reaction in the moment. That’s probably an embarrassing or a scary moment for a parent for their child to say or do something racist, and then feeling compelled to do something, say something right then. And knowing that it’s okay to say, you know, “We’re going to talk about this later.” You don’t have to be on right at that moment and you don’t have to shun or shame them because you’re feeling so uncomfortable. Like really just pausing and then getting to the deeper issue and having a real conversation.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah. Because what we’re getting to and one of the many reasons I love this conversation is that it’s about one of my favorite topics, which is how do children actually learn, compared to how we might think that they learn, or how we think we can teach them? How does it actually work with children? And you’ve spoken to that so beautifully and thoroughly. And I really, really appreciate it.
Kristen Coggins: Thank you so much. I have really enjoyed our conversation as well. I often tell the story that you are my introduction to gentle parenting, so this is sincerely a full circle moment for me. And I’m so grateful to have been able to talk to you.
Janet Lansbury: Thank you. All right, Krissy. Will you please take good care? And I’ll be looking forward to everything that you put out there and looking forward also to sharing it wherever I can. Thank you for your voice.
Kristen Coggins: Thank you. I will talk to you later.
Janet Lansbury: Okay. Bye-bye.
You can contact Krissy through Instagram or Facebook at @KrissysCouch.
And I’ll be sharing other resources for parents in the transcript of this podcast.
Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

100% of the sponsorship fee for this episode will be donated to The Sanctuary in the City, an organization Krissy recommends.
For more anti-racism resources for families, rather than attempting to assemble my own list from the treasure trove online, I reached out (again!) to Krissy who suggests THIS one curated by Katrina Michie from Pretty Good Design.
Thank you again, Krissy! 
The post Raising Anti-Racist Children – A Holistic Approach (with Kristen Coggins) appeared first on Janet Lansbury.
This Is Why Dads Are Happier Than Moms
How Self-Care and Boundaries Work Together
A stressed parent’s email prompted Janet to offer a phone consultation to address some of the common issues facing many parents who are now working at home. This mom says in her email that she has tried (and failed) to provide structure to the day to include uninterrupted one-on-one time with each child, periods where both she and her husband can concentrate on their work, and attempts at self-care. But it hasn’t worked. She also feels envious of parents who say that they are enjoying or even savoring this time at home with their kids, because “between working, caring for the kids, feeding my family, keeping the house, and managing our anxiety… my husband and I have never felt busier.”
Transcript of “How Self-Care and Boundaries Work Together”
Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today I’m responding to an email from a very stressed parent. Like so many parents, both she and her husband have been working at home for the past few months in very tight quarters, while caring for their two children. They have a 20-month-old and a four-year-old. And she’s desperate to establish some comfortable rhythm in her day for focused one-on-one time with her children for work and for self-care. But she’s finding that impossible. And she’s envious of parents who say they have lots of time on their hands these days to be present for their kids.
There was a lot of frustration and emotion in this parent’s email. So I thought we should speak. And the interesting thing is, and this is very common with countless parents I’ve consulted with, by verbalizing her situation and airing out some of her fears and her frustrations, she actually answered a lot of her own questions.
We’re all doing our best. And of course we want to feel confident in the decisions we make for our children so we can feel good about ourselves. We deserve that. So I hope you’ll find our conversation relatable and hopefully useful in your own life.
Janet Lansbury: Hi, how are you?
Parent: Hi, Janet. I’m good. How are you?
Janet Lansbury: I’m doing well. So I received your note, and it sounds like you have some questions. Usually when I do consultations, I can look and I feel that I’ll have an answer to everything that’s asked. But in your case, and in the case with a lot of notes I’ve received recently where they’re asking about how to make work happen, and taking care of children happen, and play happen, and all these elements in this difficult time that we’re in, I don’t have all the answers. So I’m starting off realizing that there will be things I probably won’t be able to help you with, but I’m going to do my best. And I want to find out where I may be able to make things easier for you or make things work better.
Parent: I’m trying to think of where to begin. The stresses and challenges are what a lot of people are doing right now, working at home. Suddenly working at home, if we haven’t been before. If we’re lucky, right? To be able to work at home. And then having small children. Mine are one, I guess she’s 20, almost 21 months. And four, he turned four in February.
I think it’s a ridiculous demand, actually, that’s being made on us in the time of COVID to have to work at home with small children. I’m trying not to have outsized expectations for myself, but it is really challenging. And I guess I’m trying to think of what the main challenge is because it’s a lot.
Janet Lansbury: Good. I was going to ask you to start with what feels the most important right now, or what feels the hardest.
Parent: I think what feels hardest is trying to prioritize time for myself. Being able to figure out when in the day I might be able to exercise, do something for myself. Something that isn’t related to the children or household tasks. I think I get frustrated when I can’t find that time or when I can’t prioritize that. And that leads to me maybe struggling with my kids more than I would otherwise.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah. So it’s really, really important — that oxygen mask that we have to put on ourselves first. I know you’ve heard that expression. It’s got to be a priority. Maybe not every single day, but a few times a week. Let’s see if we can figure out a way for you to fit that in.
Parent: That would be great to figure out how to fit that in.
Janet Lansbury: So you had a lot of questions about developing a routine that works for everybody. And it sounds like you have a partner or a husband, right?
Parent: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Janet Lansbury: So that’s good, at least, that you have someone to share these duties with. Is it possible for you to stagger your work commitments during the day? Or how do you do it with caring for the children? Do you have help?
Parent: No, we don’t have help. I don’t know that we will for the foreseeable future because we live in a place with a high infection rate. So I’m reluctant to bring anyone into the home as things are.
So my older child who’s four was in preschool. He was in a lot of full time care. Since he was about seven and a half months, he was always in a program where he was in care from 9:00 to 6:00 even, or 5:00. And my younger child also has been in that kind of daycare from around the same time, around seven months.
So my children are used to leaving the house in the morning, and have done well in those environments. That’s allowed us to work all this time. We both have pretty demanding jobs. With flexibility, even with flexibility, it’s still just feels like tremendous pressure to keep my kids healthy and occupied during the day, and attend meetings.
Also I think really what one of the hardest things I’m finding in my work life, as it relates to my kids, is to find a chunk or chunks of time that I can really write, which is part of my work. So being able to do sustained work beyond phone calls also is really hard.
So I’m finding that I do put my older son in front of the television while my daughter’s napping. By 1:30 or 2:00, that’s what’s going on. So that does feel like something I wouldn’t have done in the past. I didn’t use the television or screens in that way, but I am now because we just need some chunk of time where we can peel off in that way.
Sorry, you asked if my husband and I switched off. And we’re trying to do that now, but it’s quite hard because our schedules aren’t regular and we don’t know what our days are always going to be like. So having a rhythm to the day is hard when every day is different with work.
Janet Lansbury: So both of your schedules are just up in the air like that? You can’t count on certain times that you will need to be on, and when you could take a break?
Parent: We do have certain times of the week when we can do that. So there are certain sort of beats in the week that we can structure the week around. But it’s hard to feel like there’s a rhythm. I want something that feels like nurturing to my kids and nurturing to me in some way. And doesn’t just feel like we’re paddling upstream, I guess.
Janet Lansbury: Well, the main way to know that you’re getting those nurturing moments in is to use caregiving times. I’m sure you’ve maybe heard me talk about this. As connection points, where you are 100% available. What we can get caught up in sometimes is we’re always sort of half there when we’re there with our children. During breakfast, we’re doing something while they’re eating. Or we have our phone there. Always able to be interrupted at any moment. I would absolutely recommend that breakfast time is clear. Your phone is nowhere in sight, nothing can interrupt you for those few minutes. And you’re just there, available to one or both of your children, if they’re both up and eating at the same time.
And then there will be times that maybe you’re just with your son, or you’re just with your toddler — helping her get up from her nap or helping him get ready for bed at night. Maybe there are other things that he does, part of a bedtime routine. So really protecting those times. They don’t have to be long periods. It could be 10 minutes here and 20 minutes there, but that there’s at least one or two of those throughout the day where you know and your child knows that you’re all in. You’re all there. Nothing can interrupt. They are the most important thing right then. Do you do that?
Parent: Yeah, I mean I do think you’ve helped me do that. That’s important to me and my partner. My husband is actually the one that does breakfast more than me, because I’m actually still nursing my little one. Which is the source of some ambivalence at this point. So I ended up kind of nursing her in the morning and getting tired from that. And then he usually gives them breakfast while I kind of am in bed a little bit longer.
And I think that’s some of where he and I are both struggling is our schedule as adults is not great. We’re not going to bed early enough. And I think that’s in part because we so want that alone time or together time, or more work time, or zoning out time that we don’t get at any other point.
So I feel like we’re going to bed too late. And then we’re very tired in the morning. I’m kind of a zombie after I nurse. So I think some of that quality time, or even time that maybe I could take for myself, if I could go for a run in the morning. That’s very ambitious perhaps. But I think our bad scheduling, kind of not being adult about going to bed early, is kind of setting a whole cascade of problems in a way. But it’s hard. I find it really hard to just go to sleep right after my kids go to sleep, and they’re going to bed too late too.
Janet Lansbury: Oh.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: Well that you can change. And you can also change… I mean, running in the morning is ambitious, but it’s doable. You have to prioritize that and then have your husband cover and take that time. Maybe not every day, but certain days. But yeah, them getting to bed earlier. Okay, there’s something that maybe I can help with. What’s keeping them up so late?
Parent: I think it’s a routine that we got in when we were working. When we were picking them up at daycare and then getting home at, we wouldn’t get home until, sometimes I would get home after six. And then we want time with them and they want time with us. So I think we got in the habit because of that. And my son tends to try to push bedtime. They will often both go to sleep only at 9:00. They’re asleep at 9:00.
Janet Lansbury: Wow.
Parent: Yeah. And that’s really, really late for me.
Janet Lansbury: That’s really late. Especially for the baby. That’s really, really late.
Parent: Yeah. She kind of wants to go to bed with her brother. They sleep in the same room at home. So I feel like we’re stuck.
Janet Lansbury: Well you can look at studies and see that all sleep experts recommend a much earlier bedtime for the health of your children. And it seems like now that you’re not going to work and picking them up so late and getting home, that this is the perfect time for you to change that. Just having dinner earlier, doing it all earlier, and pushing it all earlier.
Parent: Yeah. Any other directives on that? I mean, that’s what I’ve been trying to do.
Janet Lansbury: Well… conviction. That’s what we have to do. Deciding, between the two of you, that this matters. And it’s going to help a lot of other things fall into place that you both want, which is a little bit of time to yourselves at the end of the day. You maybe getting up earlier and getting to go jog. Really important things can happen if you make this change. So whatever it takes for the two of you, what your children need is for you to have conviction. That’s ground zero for them to be able to make any kind of change. If you’re just going to do it if it works for them and if they complain, you’re going to back off, then it’s not going to work for them. And it’s almost not fair to them.
But if you two decide, “We’ve got this opportunity right now, we’re going to do this. We can do this, and it’s important for everybody’s health and wellbeing,” then you’re there. And the next part is deciding the steps and how to do everything a little earlier. Then allowing the complaints and the: “No! I want to do it this way!” And “I want to do it that way.”
I would decide what your tasks are each going to be at bedtime, and be clear about that and let your children know: “This is what we’re doing. And after we do this, we’re going to do that.” And give them that ease-in where you’re letting them know, not in a warning tone. “Okayyy. After we do this, we got to go to bed now.” But, “After we do this, then we’re going to do that — get your PJs on — and then I’m going to be with your sister, and dad’s going to be with you,” or whatever it is.
So you’re laying it out. Just the facts, not like come on or any kind of warning or emotional overtones in this. Just the facts. “This is what we’re doing. And we want you to know.” And I believe in adding into the routine. “And then if you want to yell that you don’t want to go to bed now, that’s okay. You can do that too. We’re still going to be done though.”
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: “And then daddy and I are going to go do this.” And then closing the door and saying, “Goodnight, I love you. Can’t wait to see you in the morning.”
And then they say, “Now I need this and now I need that.”
“Oh shoot, you need that. I can’t wait to do that with you in the morning. We’ll go get lots of water and lots of hugs, and I’ll lie with you and snuggle. But we’re not doing it now.” Everything has a period at the end of it. And that’s the conviction.
With your 20-month-old, you could still really set the limit. But with your four-year-old, he can pop out or do whatever. But you two have to be still clocked out. So it’s not going to get a rise out of you or anything. You’re just going to be, “All right, go back in. Because we’re doing this.”
Having that conviction that you’re done and you don’t have to make this happen for them. Sleep is something they have to do. You have to decide what you’re going to do and when you’re done.
So really that’s what it takes. These other things are just details, but it takes you deciding that this is the best thing you could do for your children. The most loving thing you could do. So you don’t have to take that advice, but-
Parent: No, it’s exactly what I want. For me as a mom, I think it’s one of the things that I’m struggling with the most is how to set these clear boundaries. How to be this strong leader, how to have that confidence. And I think when you’re in this crazy environment where you’re in each other’s space all the time, there’s no break from this. It really leaves a lot of this stuff bare. So I think the boundary issues are really coming up.
And I notice that with my kids, I’ll be like, “You can’t do that now. Sorry.” I’m apologizing to them all the time. And it’s so undermining. It’s a lack of confidence and a lack of conviction. As you talked about that, I need to explore in a deeper way perhaps. And also just work on, I guess, talking the talk. Like I’m trying not to say sorry as much.
Janet Lansbury: That’s wonderful awareness. And yes, absolutely going into that with yourself. What am I afraid of? Do I really feel I’m doing something wrong? If my children are upset, is that something wrong? Or is that something right that’s a great opportunity for them to get a lot of stress out of their bodies or share what’s inside them. Am I afraid of that? Do I need their permission?
I want to hear what the other boundaries are, because all of these things work together too. I mean, I can talk about sleep. But sleep boundaries don’t happen in a vacuum. It’s all about the whole day and the way that you relate to them and, again, how comfortable you are in your role as their loving leader that is able to look out for them.
You and your husband are able to see that getting to bed earlier is better for their health in the long run. They’re not able to see that. They’re stuck in: but I want to stay up a little longer, a little longer. Which of course we ourselves want to do too, right? We know it’s better for us to go to bed earlier, but we stay up. I do the same thing. I don’t have the same responsibilities you have, but I stay up too late. And every night I say: Tonight I’ll go to bed a little earlier, and I don’t.
But for your children, you can do that for them, you could give that to them. Because they need you to be the one to do it. And it can bring out these strengths in us that maybe we didn’t even know we had — Mother Bear or Father Bear, or whatever you want to call it. That conviction. And what’s best for our children isn’t, again, what makes them smile and say thank you in the moment a lot of the time. But they still know that it comes from love. They do know that. With the long view on it that I have, I’ll tell you. And even with all the children I’ve worked with, when I tend to do the hard thing sometimes that maybe their parents needed help with — doing with boundaries, having them be upset and melt down on me and all that stuff. I see the gratitude in them after. I see the relief.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: So when you say that you’re ambivalent about breastfeeding, I’m putting myself in your daughter’s shoes going: okay, this is a mixed experience for me doing this breastfeeding, which is very intimate on one hand. But I’m feeling this vibe of she’s really not all into this.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: And that could be when we’re playing with our child and we don’t want to be there, and we feel like we have to. All of those things. But children deserve that clarity. It’s better for them to not get a mixed message. Just like you would rather your partner not give you a mixed message or your friends not give you a mixed message, right?
Parent: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Janet Lansbury: So what are you afraid of about? And I’m not saying the answer is to end that experience. But if you’re ambivalent, why are you doing it?
Parent: Well, I was in the middle of weaning or trying to sort of push to wean, at least make it more minimal, around the time that the COVID crisis started. And I actually went on a work trip one week before things really got bad in New York. So I’d been away from her and she did fine, and I was fine. So we were at a point of really kind of tapering off a bit. But then, because there’s a pandemic, we were in a small apartment in New York where we barely ever went outside, so it’s hard to set physical boundaries. I found it hard to set more physical boundaries with my children in a very small space.
Janet Lansbury: But that’s when you need to. That’s when they need you to most. That’s when you need to for yourself. Suddenly, you’re just a victim in your own home? Everybody could do whatever they want? What does that even mean?
Parent: I think that’s right. I think there are two ways that this has come up for me. So certainly with the breastfeeding, my daughter started to just ramp up asking, sort of all the time, almost like she was an infant, a very small baby. And I did put the brakes on that. I mean, I did. I have. I’m comfortable with mornings and evenings, but I don’t want to be doing it during the day. And it wasn’t interfering with my work and making me really tired. So I have been able to set those boundaries, but it still feels like there’s before her nap, and she’ll ask after her nap. And I kind of don’t really want to do much of that anymore.
So it’s the frequency, I’m not committed to weaning clearly. And I enjoy the connection still. But as you said, I really want to be clear and I want to set the boundaries and be clear on what I want and can tolerate at this point.
Janet Lansbury: It’s so much better for her. She doesn’t have to be stuck asking all the time if you’re really clear. And when she asks before the nap and after the nap, if you say, “You’re asking, we’re going to do it later. That’s when we do it, at nighttime.” Or whatever those times are that you decide that you can be totally great with it. But if there’s even the I feel guilty saying no, and she’s asking me, and your heart sinks a little, children pick that up. She sounds like a very tuned in girl. And you’re not going to get away with trying to pretend. You really have to see it as you’re keeping her stuck in asking if you’re not clear.
Again that conviction, it frees children. They don’t have to get stuck. And that’s going to be the same with TV. I don’t know if your son is fine with the hour that you give him or whatever it is.
Parent: It’s more than an hour now, Janet. I mean the challenge of working at home of creating real chunks of time. I am using it for sure, in a way that I never have before. And I want to give my husband that stretch too. It’s like this chunk. So I don’t know. I’m not really sure. I think I either need to own that, or say it’s just going to be an hour. But then I don’t know what he’s going to do. Because that’s also what I wanted to ask you in terms of the day. We do try to create blocks of time when they can just be really playing in a yes space, in a place that’s safe for them. But if we’re there, then they’re going to try to engage us. So I guess I’m wondering how to create these bigger blocks of time when we can work. It’s really hard without the television.
Janet Lansbury: Yes, I understand. So what matters is clear on it for yourself. Making peace with your decisions, whatever they are, so you’re not ambivalent. Because when you talk about self-care, that’s one of the meanest things we can do to ourselves. To go around our whole day feeling: I feel bad that I’m letting him watch TV, but I need to do this. It’s like, you’re never happy with what’s going on. You’re never able to feel that groove of this is right. This is good. I mean, maybe you are sometimes. But with the nursing or whatever it is, all of it. This is the ultimate self-care that’s so good for your children, it’s crucial for your children to know that you have boundaries and that you feel clear and good about the choices that you make.
So looking at all those things that you’re kind of on the fence about, and really getting on one side or the other and making piece with it for yourself. Even if it disappoints everyone else in your house. Being more decisive and knowing that it’s not your job to please everyone. And with two children, you will rarely have two pleased children in the house. Somebody will be whining. Somebody will be crying.
I was also going to say, have you tried books on tape? Or, there’s all these great podcasts for children.
Parent: Yes. He loves them. He loves stories. That’s what we’ve been thinking about is just shifting a little bit more of it to that. And he adores it. So yeah.
Janet Lansbury: That’s wonderful because it’s so good for children. It’s so good for their brains. It helps them practice listening. It’s much more creative for them.
So there are going to obviously be those chunks of time, it sounds like, where you really do need them to be occupied. And I don’t know how that works for your 20-month-old. Maybe when she’s asleep?
Parent: It’s when she’s asleep. Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: But then there’ll be other times when they’re: Ugh, we’re not happy. Or, we’re in between ideas of what we want to do. Or, we’re just trying to see if my mother has conviction about her work today or whatever this call is that she’s on.
Sometimes, it can be… she comes in and you say, “Oh yeah, I’m talking to this person.” Obviously that’s not going to work with everyone.
Or, “this is what I’m working on, on the computer and you can look.” And I’m totally unintimidated by that.
And then she says, “Play with me,” or something. Or he says, “I need something to do.”
You’re still going to hold onto what you’re doing. And you’re not going to feel uh oh when they whine or complain about something. You’re going to welcome that and say, “Yeah, it is hard sometimes. I know it’s hard. And I’ve got to do this.”
And then after you’ve acknowledged, you’ll focus back on what you’re doing — I know, obviously not brilliantly when there’s children there. But you can practice showing them that you mean what you say. That when you’re not available, you’re going to go back to what you’re doing. No matter what they throw at you. You’re not getting pulled by every request they make.
But again, that takes a convicted parent that’s not ambivalent and not going around with guilt. You’re clear. And you feel like you’re doing a really, really good job.
And that’s why I brought up the thing about caregiving too. Because even if you just had that breakfast. Or maybe, for you, it’s not breakfast, but it’s lunch. Or there’s something that you own with your children as a time where you will not be distracted by anything for those few minutes. And that can be enough. That can be all you need to give them for that day, if it’s a busy day. In your mind and your heart, you can know that you fulfilled your duties as a mom. It really is enough to have a moment here and there on a busier day. There’ll be some days when you want to have a little longer, and weekends when you’re more available. But it’s really okay.
So the way that your rhythm will start to work is most of the day for them is going to be play. You’re going to have this period in the afternoon where I would try audio stuff first. Because it’s going to make you feel so much better about it, and so much better for him. But maybe you’re going to have a screen then. He’s four years old, it’s not the worst thing at all.
So you have that, but the rest of the time should be free play punctuated by these rhythms where you or their dad is fully attentive. You nursing her in the morning, breakfast with dad and your son. If one of you is in between meetings or whatever, somebody sits down with them for snack time, lunch, nap time. Does she have a nap after lunch? Or in the middle of the day probably at her age.
Parent: Yeah. I basically am there with them usually between 11 and 1. I try to be there and do that whole — kind of what you’re talking about — and I find it really grounds the day for me.
It’s a lot though. I’m sort of trying to just do all my meetings around that. And I let people know that I’m available once she’s down for the nap and he’s occupied. So yeah. I freed myself up for that. And that’s my time with them.
Janet Lansbury: You’re saying it’s two hours?
Parent: Yeah. It’s about two hours. Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: Okay. Well, that’s a whole lot if you’re giving them that. It’s okay if they want to whine at you the rest of the day, and they have nothing to do.
Parent: They’re doing pretty well. I think it’s just about… It’s like… This feels impossible, honestly, Janet. It feels so crazy to be trying to do this. Yeah. And it looks like, for me at least, that I might not send my kids to school. He was going to go to pre-K and I probably won’t send him to school at all. And we’ll be trying to do this for about a year maybe even. So that’s a lot. That’s a lot. It feels scary. It feels impossible sometimes. But I do see that we’re getting a little better at it, I guess.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah. I think you’re handling it really well. And you’re giving a lot of time it sounds like. If it seems too much, maybe you can do less. And again, getting them to bed early I feel should be a priority. I want to see you getting up and getting your exercise in first thing in the morning. That’s going to just make your whole day feel so much better. That’s a huge priority.
Parent: I think putting the kids to bed early is really not just about that. It’s about my health and my husband’s health. It’s about our mental health and our physical health even. I think just creating that space would do a lot for the whole family. So we’ve got to do that.
Janet Lansbury: Yes. Even if you two end up staying up all night, at least get them to bed and have that time for yourselves. Yeah. You absolutely need that.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: That’s self-care right there.
So I think it’ll help if you really reimagine self-care. And first of all, with your children, it’s not about the amount of time. It’s about having 100% time a couple of times a day. Again, it could all add up to an hour if that’s all that you have.
So having that, and then listening to yourself a little more about what you need. And feeling good about saying no to this, no to that. Taking on this role. You have this job — you and your husband being the leaders. You’re not trying out for it. You can do this. And you’ve got to do it with clarity. It’s going to help you and help them. Not doubting your choices or feeling like I need to do this, but I don’t really want to. Listen to that. Listen to that.
And make your boundaries for work. It’s okay to close the door on your kids if you know that they’re in a safe place. It’s really okay to be protective of your needs and yourself, and feel good about what you’re doing.
Parent: Thanks.
Janet Lansbury: You’re doing a great job. You’re doing heroic work. Every parent is right now, especially those that have to work full time still.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: It’s amazing what you’re doing.
Parent: Thank you.
Janet Lansbury: So don’t expect incredible things of yourself. Have a lot of self-compassion.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury:
And that will project down to your children as well anytime you do that. So do it for them, if not for you.
Parent: Yeah. Thank you.
Janet Lansbury: I hope some of that helps.
Parent: Super helpful.
Janet Lansbury: Oh, good. All right. Well thank you so much and you take care.
Parent: Thanks Janet.
***
Both of my books are available in paperback at Amazon, No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting. You can get them in ebook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or barnesandnoble.com, and in audio, where they’re particularly popular, at Audible.com.
If you liked the format of these recorded consultations there are 6 more at sessionsaudio.com. There’s a description of each recording and you can download them individually or as a set for under $20. That’s sessionsaudio.com.
Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.
The post How Self-Care and Boundaries Work Together appeared first on Janet Lansbury.
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She shares how the family have worked through initial resistance they all felt to learning at home, into days that combine online learning and working from home with Special Time and physical play: Balancing Work and Play Took Practice
Are Your Kids Learning Remotely? Or Feeling Anxious About Returning to School?
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Balancing Work and Play Took Practice
Schooling at home hasn’t always been easy.
Changing schedules, changing school policies, changing wifi connectivity and changing moods have all contributed to daily ups and downs in the Kwan family. That has given us all a good chance to work out where our values lie, and we’ve done many experiments trying to figure out what works best for us as a family.
In February, when all this started for us in Hong Kong, the mood was fairly flippant. At that point, we thought that any quarantine would be weeks rather than months long, and my kids’ schools advised letting pupils pick and choose what work they did.
So it came as a jolt in month two, March, when we began to see Covid’s impact spreading from Asia, across the globe, and the realisation sunk in that this home learning could be for the long haul. Since then, my kids have been in physical school for a total of 11 days.
Our schedule has changed a lot, and our feelings about home learning have changed a lot too. My older daughter’s secondary school put the whole timetable online, so she’s engaged for most of what would be her normal schoolday. At first, she hated being away from her friends. Now, she’s happy she has less travel time, and meets friends one-on-one if it’s permitted, or online if it’s not.
My son, who is 8, gets set a daily amount, mostly focused on maths, English and a focus topic, and check-ins.
At our busiest, my husband is fielding meetings online, I’m interviewing, and the kids have their two besties over (our edu-bubble) to do school. On bad Internet-days, we’re often all found devices in hand, scuttling from hotspot to hotspot, and I’m left wondering if “usual” will ever return.
Here’s How Our Schedule Shaped Up
On an average day, here’s how our days look right now.
6 am
After 13 years of sleeping in until I got up, my dog gave me nudge in a new direction when she began to wake me at dawn. As a committed night owl, I hated stumbling out of bed early at first, but after some railing about this with Listening Partners, I began to appreciate the quiet house and now use that hour to get creative writing tasks started. By 7 am, when the rest of the brood begin tumbling into the living room, it feels like I’ve already “done something for me,” that gives me more positive energy.
7-8 am
During this time the kids read and eat breakfast, scan some Tiktok or play Animal Crossing, while I scan some news, and get ready to start learning. This a totally more relaxed affair than the schooldays of old where we were all rushing not to miss buses. I’m a complete housework procrastinator unless I have a routine. So I use this hour to wash dishes, load one load of laundry, and sweep the floors—luckily our apartment in Hong Kong is small—and then I count the majority of the housework “done.”
8-9 am
Both kids begin learning online. We bubble with a neighbour and usually there is just under an hour while my son and his friend are online, so I try to get a block of work done. I have to be careful that the kids don’t just move from online lessons to just online randomness, so I tend to work pretty close by.
9-10 am
Play. Once we get our eyeballs away from the screen, it’s almost always beneficial to get my son involved in some play. This is most often Special Time, where he leads what happens. Lately, he’s been choosing hide ‘n’ seek, swordplay, Nerf gun assaults, and Lego battles, and is very physical. If he’s in a good place, we’ll tackle the first bit of (so-called) “independent learning.” Last term, there was always a fair amount of tussling even getting him interested. He said he “hated my teacher voice,’ and thought the work was “stupid.” (Some of the time, I agree, heh heh). One issue that came up for me is a pressing need to Get Things Done. I jump in with way too much enthusiasm, which he finds intimidating. I also battle feelings that he is not putting effort in where he should. Over the summer we worked on expectations we had around him getting his computer, knowing his schedule, and doing some of the work independently. I’d say it’s a work in progress, but we are inching towards some of these goals.
10-11 am
Snack time. Not the first time anyone has asked for a snack, mind you, but, actual designated snack time. My son (and his friend, if she’s here) often go off and lose themselves in some play for a bit, and then start an online class. My daughter pops by the kitchen, has a chat, and then departs to her room again. Again, I try and tackle some lighter work. Emails and quick bits of writing get done, but nothing that takes too much brainpower! If I’m feeling playful, I’ll challenge myself to see what I can get done in the 25 minutes or so that I have. (if I’m not, I choose the “focus” tab on Spotify and just try and buckle down).
11-12 pm
If there’s remaining schoolwork left at this time, it’ll go one of two ways: My son racing with a sense of victory to the finish line and whipping through the task, or him trying everything he has to avoid it: “I need water,” “I need music,” which leads to “I need headphones,” and then, “Did you know x,y or z? Look, I’ll show you.”
Since this is a pretty familiar pattern, we’ve been working on deciding which bits of work are hardest and doing those first, earlier, when there’s less tiredness, boredom and resistance. But it’s taken many, many months of tears and frustration to get to that. What it does mean though, is that I’m less urgent about a final task needing to be done, and less stressed if it doesn’t, which means it’s easier now to just listen about why he doesn’t want to do it.
12-2 pm
Since the kids are in school, they have stunted lunch breaks, which is a bit of a pain, to be honest. Mostly the small kids are done by 12.30, and play for an hour, while I prep. Sometimes they help, but not often. If there’s time we’ll play some cards or dominoes, or they’ll start chasing me about. The older kids are usually ravenous by 1.30 pm when they have a designated lunch break, while the littles race to finish lunch to get to their afternoon “check-out,” with teachers. It’s good to chat and laugh with the older ones about their day as the littles go off. My son can now articulate that he finds everyone at the table at one time quite difficult, and often he’ll move to the sofa and eat with a book.
2-4 pm
We’ve experimented quite a lot with the afternoon schedule, as their school day ends. I noticed a definite dip in energy, so start my afternoon chunk of work while they start their afternoon slump, which is usually a combo of TV slobbery, crafts, reading, a cup of tea and a biscuit, drawing and looking things up. I try to leave them to their own leanings.
4-6 pm
By 4 pm, energy levels are usually picking up again, and the kids get creative. This is where my daughter will start to bake, make DIY beauty treatments, or decorate her room, and my son starts big comic projects, a fort appears, or I’ll see him creeping around on some ninja mission. Sometimes they’ll draw or play around me, but It’s also my cue to start wrapping up work.
My kids are introverts, and not big into playing outside at the best of times, let alone in Hong Kong’s humid summer with a (required) face mask, and so they could probably go for weeks without leaving the apartment without some encouragement. There’s we have an expectation that if they haven’t been out the day before they will come and walk the dog with me. Sometimes they walk, sometimes they scoot or skate, sometimes it’s like I’m a pirate forcing them to walk the gangplank, but by the time we return things are usually much lighter!
6-8 pm
We all gather, grab a dinner plate, and watch a few TV shows together. It’s taken me a lot of years getting comfortable with this—the very opposite of the strict sit at the table rule I grew up with—but when my doubts set in, I remember how carefree this feels in comparison. And yes, a bit of me likes indulging that inner rebel.
8-10 pm
We shower and do a chapter or two in bed together before lights out. I’ll read, maybe watch a show, and try, try, try to get myself to bed by 11 pm and often fail. (I guess my kids aren’t the only ones working towards new habits and goals!)
What have I learned?
It’s not just my kids who are learning. Here’s what I’ve picked up during our distance-learning journey.
I started off so casual around school and then when it seemed to get serious I started vying for an imaginary “home teacher of the year award” only to watch all my prep and efforts go to waste, while I headed in tears for the photocopier (again). Now, I’ve learned a thing or two that works for us:
- I am rather unorganised, and so this term I have an online calendar announcing all online classes, check-ins and appointments with teachers. My son much prefers this polite A.I voice casually informing him about classes, so it’s a win-win. I do not know why I went 5 months without, but there we are!
- I now factor in brain breaks. To begin with, I was committed to the kids’ getting tasks completed. The trouble is they were not. That meant sessions were endless. Now, we have a set amount of time to do the task (or not) and then we have a break. Guess what? Everyone is happier with the “have a go” ethic, and more is getting done.
- Special Time or rough and tumble play after the first chunk of online learning helps the rest go easier. And it’s more fun too! I schedule it in like any lesson, except if my son comes off the call fired up and racing to do things.
- When they are online, I focus on my stuff. I used to hover and then a lightning bolt of “what are you doing?” hit me. Now I leave it to the teacher and use that time to work (or sometimes dress, haha).
There’s been a lot of trial and experimentation. I have leaned into listening to my kids and myself more. And, ultimately, I’ve enjoyed having everyone closer together, despite the challenges. There’s talk of us coming out of lockdown and schools opening in October, but if we close again anytime, I feel like what we have built together works for us all. At least for now.
How To Get Prepared for Virtual, Hybrid, and In-Class Learning
As a thank you for donations to our fall fundraiser, you’ll receive our new video and resource series, Raising Kids Who Love to Learn. With instructor videos, guides to children’s emotions, 100 ideas for getting playful, and lots of inspiration and printables, there’s plenty to fire up your child’s love of learning and help you all overcome education challenges this year and beyond.
The series is free with all donations of $6 or more. Go here to learn more and give.
Elle Kwan heads up Hand in Hand Parenting’s content and is the host of the Hand in Hand Podcast.
Read the other posts in this series:
Why We Worked through Emotional Baggage Before English and Math
Flexible Schedules with a Focus on Energy Supports My Child’s Learning
Why We Worked through Emotional Baggage Before English and Math
Home-schooling during lockdown felt like I had many hats on. As an ex-primary school teacher and a play-based, child-led childminder I felt strongly that my two boys, 9 and 7 years old, would educationally thrive without completing every single piece of academic school work given to us by the children’s school.
Our school provided suggested activities for the children to complete but didn’t put pressure on us to complete any or all of it.
I was confident I could provide opportunities to learn as they played and by following their interests, and weave in learning both knowledge and transferable skills.
Except, initially, after the stress and anxiety leading up to lockdown, I had no energy or creativity to provide stimulating activities. I found the thought of it exhausting unless the children drove it completely and I felt overwhelmed by the thought of being forced to have the children all day, every day.
The best I could do some days was pull out a box of toys they hadn’t played with for a while.
With my Hand in Hand instructor hat on, I knew my bigger focus was on the emotional baggage that we had all packed away during the month leading up to the lockdown.
Both boys had shown us that they were aware and struggling with the uncertainty and fear that seemed to be flying around Lancaster, the city we live in. It seemed to be all everyone was talking about. From friends and friends parents to teachers and grandparents, all were serious and concerned. The boys picked up on that energy and information and asked questions around it, but their off-track behaviour showed us that they needed extra help at the beginning of lockdown.
“I wanted our day to allow for the emotional work to be done.”
I wanted to process that baggage, and to be safe and considerate of others’ safety, whilst manoeuvring through the pandemic and dealing with the lack of normal connections, the anxieties and fears, and the resentments and frustrations lockdown created.
I wanted our day to allow for the emotional work to be done, which I knew would then leave our brains free to engage more naturally with learning.
So, for the first few weeks, we did 20-30 minutes of Special Time first thing in the morning and lots of Playlistening games all together. Using these two tools allowed plenty of opportunity for Staylistening when feelings came up.
At that time, I didn’t try to achieve anything other than keeping the family fed and vaguely clean!
I knew that getting plenty of Listening Time for me was also going to be crucial because my own anxieties had been evident. Caring for other families’ young children can be a big responsibility, and one I feel under normal circumstances. In such uncertain times, it began to affect my health, unfortunately giving me the very symptoms of COVID, with a tightness in my chest and shortness of breath. During my Listening Time, I worked on my anxieties around responsibilities, about my fear for my family’s health, and around my resentments for being put in a position I’d never wanted and never planned for. I was working through feelings around my helplessness and powerlessness.
Over the first few weeks of lockdown, we tried many different routines, focuses, and structures. Some worked well, some left us at loggerheads, and some worked one day but could not be replicated again. Some days the resistance from the children felt neverending, only for the following day to result in co-operation and productivity!
What I did notice after a couple of weeks was that we were mucking along in a much lighter, more collaborative way. I think the Special Times, Staylistening, and Playlistening along with gentle Setting Limits had enabled us all to offload some of that baggage we came to lockdown with.
For more on setting limits read: 4 Types of Limits That Children Need
Our Schedule Looked Something Like This
After those initial weeks, our lockdown days grew to look something like this;
7-9 am
We’d start the day with some connection time. Some cuddles, silliness and laughter (and sometimes tears) in the big parents’ bed. We experimented with plenty to get a few giggles going; making a tent by sticking dad’s leg in the air under the covers; by squishing and squashing each other as we all changed places in the bed to have a cuddle with another member of the family; playing “he’s mine!” where both parents playfully have a tug of war over a child. (My boys giggle uncontrollably at this game.)
As a family, we tend to get breakfast, dress and wash at our own pace, with the expectation that we will all be ready by a certain time, and as the usual time constraints disappeared, I was able to use this time to set limits around how much the children helped out with household chores; tidying breakfast things away; unloading and loading the dishwasher; putting a load of clothes washing on; straightening their bedrooms; putting food shopping away etc.
There was often a mix of playfully Setting Limits and Staylistening as feelings came up around those expectations of joining in with family responsibilities and getting dressed and ready for the day. We always try to do those chores together with an adult, in a playful and as light atmosphere as possible.
9-10 am
Outdoor exercise. We tried to mix it up, but we found that once we got out of the house and had some physical exercise and fresh air, we all felt more able to be light and connected.
I tried to be as child-led as possible, without expectations for what we might “achieve,” and I aimed to load the children up with connection, giving them the same delighted attention I give in Special Time, and letting them lead, or saying “Yes” to what they wanted, wherever possible. (With both boys, this wasn’t Special Time exactly, but close). Scrambling up nearby woodland slopes was one of the boys’ favourites, as was playing hide and seek in the woods, and football training and circuit training on the local green spaces, where we all enjoyed making up games and exercises. We also scooted and biked to unexplored neighbourhoods nearby.
10-12 pm
After being outdoors the boys were keener to sit down and do some maths or English that had been set for them by their teachers. We usually took a drink and snack break between maths and English. I’d use the break times to do more connection, give cuddles, and do some quick Playlistening games to get some giggling going. Although the boys needed me around during school time, it was more for moral support and encouragement, which allowed me to have a cup of coffee, un-load dishwashers, washing machines, and prepare lunch at the same time.
12-1 pm
We’d sit down for lunch with their dad and enjoy catching up with what we’d been doing in the morning. I usually needed some adult time by now, so the boys’ Dad and I would take a hot drink into our bedroom and give free time to the boys.
1-3 pm
Our afternoons were much more flexible. We would have some Special Time and do other activities together. If school sent inspiring activities we might try them together, or otherwise we’d think up our own activities, cook or bake together, or try out a new hobby or project. How on-track we were all feeling would determine the order and structure of our afternoon. Sometimes we’d do doing Special Time first, and on other days we’d wait until later.
3.30-4.30 pm
If one of the children had a Zoom calls with friends, where they could chat, play games, and laugh together, I had time with the other child one-on-one. I used this time for Special Time or sometimes to do individual music or language practice.
4.30-5.30 pm
The children chose what they did for the hour before dinner, including screen time. This gave me a much-needed hour to be by myself, either to quietly get dinner ready, finish chores, or just have a quiet brew and chat with a friend.
5.30-7.30 pm
We would all have dinner together and then begin bedtime which usually started off with some Playlistening games and silliness, before showers, and storytime. As with in the morning, this gave an opportunity for playful or gentle Setting Limits and Staylistening to help clear anything that had come up during the day and helped the children feel connected enough to fall asleep peacefully. I also scheduled my Listening Time on Monday and Wednesday evenings.
My boys are set to go back to school full-time sometime in September, and I will be childminding as usual three days a week during the school term. The boys have loved being at home, and I anticipate some rough patches as they move back into school life.
We’ll up the amount of Special Time before school restarts, and I’ll focus on Playlistening at school pick-up as well as some family play before bed. I’ll use my Listening Time to work on the probable anger that will explode from my youngest as he struggles with his anxieties around new teachers, new situations and his resentment around needing to sit at tables rather than climbing trees!
If we have to go back into lockdown again, I’ll try to remember what’s important to us, slowing down so that I can hold on to connection as the important thing, and clean clothes as less so!
Katy Linsley is a Certified Hand in Hand Instructor, from Lancaster, UK. You can follow her at www.heartsandmindparenting.com, and sign up for her talks and classes.
Inspire Your Child’s Curiosity and Love of Learning
Katy donated this post for our fall fundraiser, Raising Kids Who Love To Learn. Please consider a gift to help Hand in Hand Parenting keep support free and available to parents through 2021.
All donations of $6 or more receive 5 x videos and a full resource pack to help you and your children love learning. Get help with resistance, overwhelm, and grumpiness, and find out how to set good limits around learning, inspire creativity, and have more fun however your family’s learning looks this year.
Go here to see what’s included and donate. With gratitude.
Read the other posts in this series:
Flexible Schedules with a Focus on Energy Supports My Child’s Learning
Balancing Work and Play Took Practice
Flexible Schedules with a Focus on Energy Supports My Child’s Learning
My homeschooling journey actually began six years ago.
While I loved the beautiful books and curriculum and carefully planned days of traditional homeschooling, my sensitive, strong-willed, unique needs son did not and when his dysregulation, aggression and anxiety were at it’s highest, I dropped everything, including home learning, so that I could focus on restoring connection, emotional regulation, and executive functioning.
What I did during that time was to keep our home filled with books that I carefully selected to supplement his education indirectly. I now practice unschooling with him, and “eclectic homeschooling,” (unschooling with some traditional homeschooling), with my younger two children.
Lessons I Learned About Homeschool
Did your heart THUD when you heard about more remote learning for another year for your child? Does your heart sink or tense up now just thinking about it? Or are your kids going back to school and you’re feeling a restricted wave of relief? Restricted because you are keenly aware that you might be distance learning at any point during the school year.
I feel you, moms and dads.
And I want you to know you are doing good work. Seriously, you’re making magic each and every day you’re navigating schooling at home, work, meals, clean up, and whatnot. No joke. Actual. Magic.
I started homeschooling my children before COVID times.
My mission with my children’s learning experience is to foster internal curiosity and wonder and instil in them that learning and growth are part of a joyful lifelong experience. I focus on ensuring they learn the basics and trust that any gaps in their learning will get filled in as they come up.
Here’s How Our Schedule Looks (Sometimes!)
No one day ever really looks the same, no day feels “typical,” but there are some definite rises and peaks in energy and go-to tools that I use.
Dawn Onwards:
Our mornings start off relaxed. After everyone has gotten ready and had breakfast, I notice that they—and I—all benefit from downtime.
They play. I work, focus on my self-development, clean or join them in play. If I am cleaning or cooking, I create gentle playful invitations for them to join. This looks like a game of “Whose shirt is this?” as we hang laundry, or talking to the dishes as we wash. I find that my younger children find it supportive if we try and tap into their senses doing this (for example, as they put each dish on the drying rack, we say “clink” together).
When I want a moment to myself, I can directly share this with my kids and take a moment for me to reset.
Midday Onwards:
After lunch, our family naturally rests. This is a time where I may do some direct learning for my younger children. This can be guiding my 6-year-old with reading, writing or math. My 3-year-old NEEDS to be doing school, too, so I keep simple things for her nearby. This looks like drawing a squiggly line on a piece of paper and she puts dot stickers on it, pouring and dumping or some other simple, Montessori-style activity.
Afternoons are where we go outside, get social and get sweaty. We may go swimming, play tag, ride bikes or an excursion out to the park, store or elsewhere.
Evening Onwards:
My eldest thrives in the evenings after the younger two have gone to bed. His interest peaks in the evenings when it’s quiet and still and he has my full attention. When we do direct learning (through his request), it is supportive to keep the experience short. So we do four math problems versus an entire page.
And we have flexibility. Not EVERY day looks like this. Not EVERY day has direct learning. What’s supportive is to stretch my kids. We do our best when we stay out of overwhelm by noticing when it’s time to pull back, and doing so.
And on the days where we are not directly learning, my kids are still absorbing. We may be baking together and they indirectly become aware of measurements, fractions and time. What I’ve experienced with my kids is that ONE emotionally-engaged experience grounds concepts in much deeper than ten direct but emotionally bland experiences.
Following My Child’s Cues For Learning
What do I mean?
My kids are all curious about business and money as they watch me grow in my business. They actually see me love what I do. My eldest sees me writing on the computer when I work. He’s always loved drawing and handwriting stories. A few years ago, he was inspired to write a story and asked if he could use the computer. I said, “Yes…and…did you know there is a special way to position your fingers so that you can type quickly?”
I waited for his “yes” and curious eyes.
“Will you show me, mama?” he asked.
Oh yes!
In ten minutes, I showed him the basics of typing and he took off from there and wrote an entire story.
How to Beat the Resistance
What my experience these past years has taught me is that what kid’s resist with schooling is when we become completion-focused. I mean when completing the “work” becomes more important to us than our connection. In those times, what they resist is the “have to” or “just get it done” energy. You know…when there is a worksheet you want them to do and you know that if they actually sat down and focused on it, it’d take five minutes but instead you spend two hours on it.
How have I overcome this?
I focus back on that energy.
I mix connection in.
So, right now, my eldest wants to learn multiplication tables and asked me to make worksheets for him. On the worksheet, I put a spot for his name at the top and underneath I put a second question. I put fun questions like, What’s your favorite movie? Would you rather swim in a pool of ice or tomato sauce? What do you think tastes worse – broccoli ice cream or fish popsicles?
When I ask for these small things below his name, I shift my energy from “just do the worksheet” to “I want to get to know something about you I didn’t know before.”
It’s building connection and trust right into the learning experience.
When my middle son was first learning to read and not very interested, he’d sound out words like this: “hhhhhhh….aaaaaaa….tttttt….hhaaaaatt…CAR!”
I Playlistened with him by taking a turn for me to read and I’d say “cccc….aaaaa….ttttt…..ccaaaaatt……BANANA PANCAKES!”
He’d laugh and laugh and say “No, mama…it says CAT”.
He also LOVES food and became internally motivated to read when I put up a meal plan on the refrigerator because he wanted to know what we were going to eat that day.
We’ve now reached a point where continuing to learn to read is a value I want to uphold for my 6-year-old, so I hold a loving limit that we practice for at least five minutes a day. He gets to choose what activity we do and where we sit in the home, and I bring my enthusiasm and delight for this time. Often, I’ll build connection by telling him, “BUT, you can’t read until you find the book I hid,” or getting some whole-body action in by taping cards up high that he gets to jump to pull down and read.
Listen to Yourself
What I’d love to leave you with is to listen to yourself. Homeschooling someone else’s way is not easy. Find what resonates with you and your family, the rhythms that support you and leave what doesn’t.
Oh, and cut yourself a lot of slack on the days when you just don’t have it in you. Snuggling up and reading a book together counts as school. So does supporting your kids in navigating sibling squabbles—think debate class, negotiation skills, and empathy skills.
Now, that’s a full curriculum.
Fire Up Your Child’s Passon For Learning
Sonali is a Hand in Hand Certification candidate and the founder of Raising Your Strong-Willed Child online summit. She supports parents of highly sensitive, strong-willed kids in her Facebook community and on www.raisingyourstrongwilledchild.com
Sonali donated this post for our Raising Kids Who Love to Learn Fall Fundraiser, now on. Please consider a gift to fund the good work Hand in Hand Parenting does supporting parents and children through hard times.
As a thank you for donations of $6 or more, you’ll receive the whole Raising Kids Who Love to Learn resource series, with 5 x videos from Hand in Hand Instructors, plus printables, 100 Ways to Play guide and our ebook Understanding Children’s Emotions.
See the whole series here, and click to give and get your series now.
Read the other posts in this series:
Why We Worked through Emotional Baggage Before English and Math
Balancing Work and Play Took Practice




